sexismnoun
1. attitudes or behavior based on traditional stereotypes of gender roles.
2. discrimination or devaluation based on a person's sex or gender, as in restricted job opportunities, especially such discrimination directed against women.
3. ingrained and institutionalized prejudice against or hatred of women; misogyny.
discriminationnoun
1. an act or instance of discriminating, or of making a distinction.
2. treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit: racial and religious intolerance and discrimination.
3. the power of making fine distinctions; discriminating judgment:
She chose the colors with great discrimination.4. Archaic. something that serves to differentiate.
devaluationnoun
1. an official lowering of the exchange value of a country's currency relative to gold or other currencies.
2. a reduction of a value, status, etc.
RulesTank ProgramBasically, the Armagetron Forums are a sane place. Like at any public forum (an actual open square outsidet we expect people to behave with some mode of decorum and propriety. In plain English that translate to 'Family Friendly' as our base policy.
There are a few posts below to help clarify this concept as well, expand on other aspects of forum behaviour.
(For a more in depth discussion, please see
this thread and in general
this sub-forum.)
Z-ManOh, right, we're supposed to actually post rules!
1. Don't be an idiot.
2. Treat others respectfully, like human beings. Even if they violate rule 1.
Those are the axioms. Everything else derives from that. An incomplete list of conclusion follows:
3. Don't spam. If your post contains more smileys than text, it's probably spam. If your post adds nothing worthwile to the topic, it's probably spam. If your post only consists of 'lol', it's probably spam. You get the picture.
4. Don't post inappropriate material. Imagine a picture printed out and attached to an office door, or framed in your living room. Would you like your house guests, your relatives or your boss to see such a picture? If no, it has no place here. Same goes for videos, audio and, obviously, text.
5. Don't insult or patronize others.
6.
Don't fight fire with fire. Threads sliding into flamewars will be locked, reopening the fight in new threads will not be looked upon kindly. Heated discussion on controversial topics is fine, but keep the heat on the subject, not the people.
7. "It was meant to be funny" is no valid excuse, unless the moderators think it was funny. Do you want to take your chances with that?
8. Being in a clan you don't like is not a crime.
9. Don't be a rule lawyer. This list is incomplete and up for interpretation, and maybe just wrong in places.
Those rules are in flux, we're still debating and refining them. Join in here.
A couple of additions. Objectionable content (such as talked about in #4 and, to lesser extent, #3) is just edited out without a mark on users' files if it's not too extreme. So if you honestly think something is interesting or funny and not offensive, go ahead and post it. We're just adopting the "think about the people screaming 'think about the children!' " view. No player should be banned from here by his/her (not too uptight) parents because they saw something they deem inappropriate. We're using the lowest common denominator of western culture: think USA's aversion against nudity and Europe's paranoia against violence.
There Are No Girls On the Internet ft. DurfVogue
I want to publically apologize for lying about my gender for years, because I'm actually a guy. Sorry everyone and it's weird how Durf was the one who figured it out! Well, at least now he can stop trying to manipulate me into giving him nudes... autism is one hell of a drug. ■
Deprecation of the character of individuals with an autism spectrum disorder
- Tim
Durf
*sigh*
I don't appreciate the trolling.
Neither do I appreciate the people that blindly believe Vogue's attempt to besmirch me.
Never have I once asked for nudes; never was I going to.
My instructions are merely a "fool-proof" way to prove identity...a set that anyone can follow (no nudes required).
(Side note: There are girls on the internet, and even some women. I'm surprised you of all people would start a sexist topic; especially after you complained about others being sexist. And there have been female tronners...real ones)
^ stop avoiding the fact that this is about you and your lies
For proof, refer to the FULL PM history below:
^ Judge me for what I actually said; not what I didn't.
You all should know better by now than to believe such one-sided claims (without looking into it).
Durf
Your gender doesn't matter. I don't know why you think it does or why you think pretending you're the opposite gender would make any difference.
Gender is out of the question, female or male, I would treat you the same.
My instructions were really just some questions I would ask, and you would be required to answer them in real time. (no PMs, no forums, no email. In game chat is fine.)
Among some other tasks I might ask you to perform, a picture may or may not be required. (no nudity is required, even tits can be seen through a shirt and most people should be able to tell the difference between mammaries and man-boobs - but that's so crude, I was thinking something more like identity verification; where you take a picture with a written password that I would give you. Then you'd have 30-60 seconds to send the picture to my email. Again, no nudity is required; and a picture itself may not even be required)
Lastly, information about who (rather what) you are is publicly available to many, many advertising agencies. If you have seen an ad on the internet, they already started tracking your interests. It is sophisticated enough to depict between family members, so obviously it can tell sex, age, level of income, children, level of education, etc.. And this is all publicly available too; so I would (if required) setup a page that is linked to such agencies, and ask you to visit it. Then I'd have to go digging through tons of statistical data to find "you" and the information they have on you.
But honestly, you don't have the psychological disposition of a female. Which is what made me question your gender in the first place. Either your bad at acting, or you're a very manly female (sexy xD). ■
Perception of gender of an individual based on general and/or stereotypical behaviorsIt's not about your gender at all. In the end, which gender you are doesn't matter.
The reasons for me questioning you has more to do with integrity than anything else.
Plus it would be a good thing for your "supporters" to see who exactly they were supporting. (a liar)
Did you think no one would call you out on your nonsense? That's just silly. This is the internet.
Vogue
Oh pleaseeeeee, out of all the bullshit he posted today all you mention is skepticism on the internet? Lets just ignore the ignorant comments regarding gender roles and behaviors associated with that. ■
Misrepresentation of another individual’s comment; defamation of character You're trolling at this point, sine. ■
Misrepresentation of another individual’s comment; defamation of character
Durf
There are clear differences between genders.
Ignoring them is what is ignorant.
Sexism: prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex.
It isn't sexist to say that a male has penis.
Just like it's not sexist to say that females typically have mammary glands.
(note that there are odd cases in which neither could be true for either sex, but that does not invalidate the generalization)
Just like there are physical difference between genders, there are psychological ones too.
Pretending they don't exist is ignorant.
Y'know that finger you've been pointing at everyone lately?
Turn it around and start judging yourself for once. It will do you some good.
Especially since you think my posts have been bullshit...what have your posts been?
What do you contribute to this thread?...in fact, what does this thread contribute to the forums?
What are you doing with your hobby?
Vogue
Claiming I don't have the "psychological disposition of a female" implies girls on the internet have to act a certain way, presumably your version of feminine, or they're not considered girls. That is sexist and ignorant. ■
Misrepresentation of another individual’s comment; defamation of character
Durf
How much psychology do you know? Certainly not enough to even be a successful troll. ■
Deprecation of another individual’s intelligenceFurthermore, I said that it was your psychological disposition that made me question your gender. No assumptions were made. And I definitely did not imply that females are required to act a certain way.
As I said in my previous post, there are differences between genders and you can't pretend there aren't.
Anyone that knows enough psychology can easily tell more about you than you know about yourself.
At this point you are grasping at straws; literally trying anything you can to make this thread actually valid.
Try as you might, there's nothing there for you to find.
Vogue
"You don't have the psychological disposition of a female"
Please share with us what an 'actual female' would have.
■Misrepresentation of another individual’s comment
Lucifer
Indeed. I'd like to know exactly what a sexist cisgender male knows about gender. ■
Deprecation of another individual’s knowledge; defamation of characterDurf? Care to explain your blatantly misogynistic and transphobic comments? Or should I just do what I think is necessary here? ■
Misrepresentation of another individual’s comment; defamation of characterSigned,
Your Friendly Gender Fluid Moderator
Durf
What do you think is necessary here?
Pretty sure this topic is off topic and only a waste of space, so as moderator, shouldn't you have done something already? Y'know instead of propagate this nonsense further...
In answer to your questions, another concerned tronner PM'd me about my alleged sexism, and referred me to this video:
I urge you all to do the same.
This was my reply:
Furthermore, calling me a "cisgender" only implies that you're some transgender or otherwise not male or female. So how exactly does any of this effect you? Or did you think it would be fun to use a word that has no real relevance in your sentence?
In the spirit of trolling, I suggest you all change your tampon.
The only ones making an issue out of this is you. Aren't you special :3 ■
General insults
LuciferWow. I just...wow.
Ok.
Enjoy your ban, Durf. I know damned well that I don't want this kind of sexism being thrown around. ■
Misrepresentation of another individual’s comment; defamation of character That video shows every single way you're wrong.
And you don't get it.
(This decision was made in part due to feedback from my younger daughter and my wife. People who are, amongst all the other things they are, girls)
F0RC3
Lucifer, that ban is clearly unwarranted. Quit being offended by an opinion and actually present an argument.
You completely lack an argument, and honestly banning him just shows your inability to argue against him. It's like saying, take the victory.
From what I can tell Durf is talking about averages or the overall norms of females and males. He isn't dealing with absolutes, there is room for variation. (of course I'm just assuming what Durf thought based on what he wrote)
"But honestly, you don't have the psychological disposition of a female. Which is what made me question your gender in the first place. Either your bad at acting, or you're a very manly female (sexy xD).", This right here shows that he doesn't think females only have one type of personality, simply by looking at the last sentence. However you would definitely be going against the norm for women.
As regards to that video. It is honestly quite clear as to why like a girl would be an insult. Like a girl, usually isn't attributed to women themselves. Rather it is used as an insult against men to insult their masculinity. Like a girl in most situations refers to situations of strength. Boys put simply, are built to perform physical tasks (runnings, fighting, lifting, etc) better than woman on average. Hence why sports are generally separated for males and females. Doing things like a girl, is more of an insult to the majority of men than it is to the majority of women.
And Liz, it would be appropriate to say that males or females act a certain way. The world works with generalizations. People separate things (including people) into groups. I would definitely say that you don't act like the typical woman on the internet.
Lucifer
Choosing not to argue is not evidence of a lack of argument. That you assume so is a logical fallacy. I choose not to argue for my own reasons.
Durf isn't talking about averages or anything like that. He's arguing from a base of stereotypes. That video challenges them, and he spent a lot of time debunking that. ■
Misrepresentation of another individual’s comment; defamation of characterIn my appeal to emotion, I'll point out that my wife and my younger daughter both saw the video and read his response. That they both thought any ban less than permanent was lenient says something. You, as a male, are not in a position to judge this situation. You've seen the world through your male privileged eyes. You think you have a position. ■
SexismYou do not.
Every single woman who reads the tripe that Durf wrotes has been triggered. Some may be contemplating suicide. You just don't understand how extreme the situation really is. ■
Defamation of character
And I don't care.
I can't link the current attacks to Durf by IP address, nor can I link them to anybody else on these forums. But I can say that the current attacks show something about somebody. If they are Durf, they justify the ban (which, as I pointed out, was only one single day).
Ironically, Liz, the person who has been the most outspoken about Durf's sexism, usually conforms to her bans (she's gone through several usernames because she tried to overcome the bans), and she, the Ultimate Armagetron Troll ■
Defamation of character, has never done anything like this. ■
Defamation of character
F0RC3You are right, not arguing doesn't mean that you lose an argument. However banning a person for no apparent reason when he is arguing for his opiniontefinitely shows signs that you would rather end the conversation rather than argue, If you even can present an argument? I mean you have spent quite a bit of time, present an argument for your opinion (Rather than banning someone for theirs).
While this isn't always true, stereotypes can be based off of the average. Also to me, it doesn't just seem like he is talking solely about stereotypes in all of his posts. He even shows that part of what he was talking about isn't stereotyping. Something you don't seem to refute.
This is no insult to your wife or your daughter, but what do they have to do with your ability to mod? If they want to participate in the discussion, have them make an account and particpate or simply post through your account. But that doesn't mean they should be able to influence your power based on their opinions, solely because they are your family. Why should their opinions be held higher than others? Simply because they are woman? Now that is sexist.
You are right the person who is spamming the forums definitely deserves a ban, but that doesn't mean that durf deserved his ban.
Anything like this? Argue her opinion? Yeah she probably hasn't, because she gives too few shits and would rather get other people to argue with few words and laugh her ass off. ■
Defamation of characterAlso if someone is contemplating suicide from the words that durf said, a random person online who is only expressing his opinion. You need to get them help. There is clearly something wrong with them, and they need help. Almost Anyone contemplating suicide needs help.
Sinewav
I hate to say it bro, but you are totally out of line. I know you have an agenda, and that's great, we all need something to believe in, but it doesn't belong here. Maybe you need to unhinge yourself a little bit and step back.
LuciferIf Z-man or Tank Program agrees with you, then I'll step down, walk away, and never look back.
My "agenda" is what it's always been: Freedom for all. Dignity for all. Etc.
There's nothing new here.
Next time we see each other in a bar, don't talk talk to me. I don't know you, after all.
LuciferHe GAVE HIS PART. He presented his part, and it's all right there to see. Well, most of it. The abusive shit was over a thread that I locked, that has no relation to any of this conversation.
He GAVE HIS PART. He presented his case, completely and fully. He was as out and open as you can imagine.
There's no oppression going on. We've given ONE DAY BANS as a slap on the wrist, we've done it as jokes, and here it happens to Durf when he's being a sexist pig and suddenly THAT'S AN ISSUE? ■
Defamation of characterThe truth is shown here. Vogue will point it out, she knows what's up. The truth is clear.
Men > Women
That's the truth. It's as bare as it's going to get.
LuciferWow. Really? Someone dares to question your male superiority, and then this?
Wow.
Do any of you own any testicles? Whether they were part of you when you were born or not is irrelevant. Do any of you own any? ■
General insult
VogueLucifer, thank you for being one of the few to see the blatant sexist and transphobic comments Durf was making (there are more but they didn't neccesarily post publically here). ■
Misrepresentation of another individual’s comment; defamation of character I don't know if people are choosing to ignore it because they hate me, or because they can't see it, or maybe even because they agree with him. Everyone else, you're a ******* idiot. Please never have children, they may turn out to be gay, transgender or even a girl. ■
General insultSine, seriously. I feel like if Durf wasn't arguing with me, you'd see what me and Lucifer are talking about. What's up with you?
VogueI'd like to apologize for making comments about aspergers. It's not any better than making sexist/transphobic comments and it doesn't reflect my true opinion on autism, I take it back.
Vogue: 13
Durf: 6
Lucifer: 14
F0RC3: 1